Curse

Angelic Upstart · Jun 13, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Who is the lunatic in charge of these updates?

Laughed my arse off at the mystic regen +8 enchants.

Like farming with that wasnt already easy... they should rename the game to retard wars.

kostolomac · Jun 13, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

When you have to resort to "gimping" yourself - an overall unsatisfactory method as evidenced by the fact that difficultly settings have existed for years - then the game is no longer challenging.
...Which is pretty much what happened.

If you find the game not challenging , don't cry at ANET to make it more challenging for you , you and the likes of you hiss at ANET for catering to players who oppose your ideas , yet you want ANET do change the game according to you.
If you beat all the chapters , elite areas and everything else , i hate to break it to you but you have 2 choices : 1. switch to PvP or 2. quit the game.
Don't think that if you now have an easy time the game was also that easy when you started playing it. If ANET listened to people like you many players who started playing the game will have a much harder time than you started.
Do you really want to ruin the game experience for many other players just so you can have more challenge?

Bryant Again · Jun 13, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

If you find the game not challenging , don't cry at ANET to make it more challenging for you , you and the likes of you hiss at ANET for catering to players who oppose your ideas , yet you want ANET do change the game according to you.

If ANet isn't willing to change the game for "us", why did they change their game for a minority of whiny, farming players?

But the thing is that Guild Wars had challenge, and it also had accessibility. So why did they have to make the game easier for everyone when the game was already a success, when people were already satisfied??

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Don't think that if you now have an easy time the game was also that easy when you started playing it.

The indisputable fact is that it wasn't. A game becoming easier because you are "skilled" is entirely different than a game becoming easier due to overpowered PvE skills.

Sleeper Service · Jun 13, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

...pve is NOT competitive why impose competitive parameters onto something that is not.

its like going a swimming pool and complaining to the gym about the fact that some kids are using floaters and that "they are not doing it right", so what? wth are you doing in the public section if you dont like it? go swim in the professional lanes and stop pestering people.

Im getting awfully tired of explaining to people who have finished the game on multiple characters already that NEW players do not share the same environment as we did back in 05.
Just because we know what to exploit, what skills to grind and where to go does not mean that new players DO. Even more to the point new players play to have FUN, if the game is not fun then THATS bad design.

you say it yourselves pve was not hard....then some say it was hard....i dunno i have yet to find in over ummm lets see 26 or so years of video gaming
a game that i found "hard"...whats hard about a video game? you fail. try again. repeat. success.

Its not the "oh its hard" bit that attracts gamers, its the "oh this is FUN" bit.
If you had any knowledge of games you would actually realize this but nooooo...."gotta be hard".

take "ikaruga" the very top of the food chain as far as the shootemup gendre goes (imo).

now that game is what many would classify as "hard" but.....its not once you finish it. what then...its EASY? not fun any more ? ohhh dear.

i guess those that "gimp" themselves and play i dunno ....without shooting a single bullet and finish the game without killing a single enemy makes them...dumb? clearly its impossible to have fun when you "impose an artificial challenge on yourself".

let me tell you a little secret, there is no "goal" in life other than the ones YOU set upon yourself.

well gosh darn it theres a whole bunch of people rage quitting now huh.

--------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The problem with that comparison is that GW doesn't have a "ladder match" equivalent to PvE. It was Hard Mode, but now everything has been reduced to a much more easier standard due to PvE skills and UB.

Regarding Point B: A "challenge" is when you're using the best of the best, using all of the tools given to you, playing at your best and not with any "self-imposed" difficulties, and you're still having a hard time. When you have to resort to "gimping" yourself - an overall unsatisfactory method as evidenced by the fact that difficultly settings have existed for years - then the game is no longer challenging.

1. i heard pvp was cool. and in case you dont know what a ladder match is in CS....its "pro" gaming, you know, "serious biznes".

2. Why cross the North pole walking, why climb the Himalaya why cross the Atlantic in a row boat? why do anything at all, they could just take a plane.
dumb idiots clearly wasting their time.

@Abedeus
[A] means you should look up stuff before responding.
[B] means you should think a little before responding.

and that carrys over to the rest of your post.

--------------------------------
explain to us what a "level playing field" in GW is. all skills are equal? player skill is most important? build skill is most important? clicking speed is most important?

when these "gimick" builds come out its "unskilled" playing, yet they are applying your own credo (and Anets at the same time) [build] SKILL > time, victory at any cost.

what do you want? fixed skill bars? pvp ursan?

some of the changes do look strange, unless you factor in the fact that the mobs use them too.

Angelic Upstart · Jun 13, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

@kostolomac

The game was challenging once upon a time, when it was just Prophecies, but sadly it is not any longer, when one skill can dominate all areas, that a balanced team of players with a good knowledge of the game used to struggle in. That is catering to the retarded...seriously.

moriz · Jun 13, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

If you find the game not challenging , don't cry at ANET to make it more challenging for you , you and the likes of you hiss at ANET for catering to players who oppose your ideas , yet you want ANET do change the game according to you.
If you beat all the chapters , elite areas and everything else , i hate to break it to you but you have 2 choices : 1. switch to PvP or 2. quit the game.
Don't think that if you now have an easy time the game was also that easy when you started playing it. If ANET listened to people like you many players who started playing the game will have a much harder time than you started.
Do you really want to ruin the game experience for many other players just so you can have more challenge?

once again, another one misses the entire point.

had anet kept with their original vision with the game, none of this would've happened. it's the fact that anet has dumbed the game down significantly that we are complaining about. if you think otherwise, then you need to give your head a shake.

the last 5 missions of prophecies were substantially more difficult (and much more entertaining) when stuff like [[save yourselves] and [[critical agility] didn't exist. this really struck home for me during the second last mission, where the lich put chimera of intensity on my assassin. the result was pretty hilarious, but incredibly sad at the same time.

Bryant Again · Jun 13, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Just because we know what to exploit, what skills to grind and where to go does not mean that new players DO. Even more to the point new players play to have FUN, if the game is not fun then THATS bad design.

So Guild Wars sold 3 million copies (before PvE skills were released and general dumbing down occurred) and the game wasn't fun?

And I can't really agree with others saying that these PvE skills cater to the "majority of casuals". Why? They're linked to a title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

1. i heard pvp was -

Stop. PvP is not PvE. I want the challenge back in PvE.

And while you can say "look to PvP for a challenge duh", I used to able to look in PvE for a challenge. That's gone now, since the challenge isn't in PvE, it's in me not using Ursan Blessing or SY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

2. Why cross the North pole walking, why climb the Himalaya why cross the Atlantic in a row boat? why do anything at all, they could just take a plane.
dumb idiots clearly wasting their time.

I thought you just said that "this is a game, comparing it to over the top 'RL' examples fails"?

Sleeper Service · Jun 13, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart

@kostolomac

The game was challenging once upon a time, when it was just Prophecies, but sadly it is not any longer, when one skill can dominate all areas, that a balanced team of players with a good knowledge of the game used to struggle in. That is catering to the retarded...seriously.

dude, we are 2 games and one expansion later.

what...area of prophesies did you use to struggle in? I used to find SF hard...the first what? 3 times? then what? kept on playing it, not hard anymore, yet fun.

its crazy, people posting like they were SOOO much more clever than the new players....err no sorry, i saw some retarded $$£% back then as well, exploits and cheap builds galore.

you think infinite energy is a new thing brought on by new skills??? that steamrolling through areas is some kind of perverse effect brought on by GW:En? that "elite" areas remained inaccessible to the average "leet" player for more than a month? no its wrong. I dunno if its because you all suck up to the vets here or if its nostalgia that warps your vision but the end result was not that different, we just did it with what we had.

Bulletdodger · Jun 13, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

RAGE !!!!
When somebody says that UB destroyed "skill>time" is wrong. Imagine this , you make yourself a nice warrior(or any other class) , and desperately want to complete FoW , imagine there is no gwen and you want to be competitive and be able to play any build , so you first finish all campaings , cap all the skill , you don't pay to get runned to Droks or Consolate Docks , so you spend an awful lot of time capping elites and getting ordinary skills , after xx hours spent you play that FoW , finish it and then what , you spent a lot of time making your character competitive , and after those xx hours spent for let's say 1.5 h of "showing" your skills , that's not "skill>time" , that's grind . You ppl forget that even with UB , there are bad and good players , just because a team has the same skillbar doesn't mean they all are "good" or "bad" players.
This update is perfect , have you even considered why does ANET make this updates instead of nerfing UB?
Did you consider that "retarded" energy drain would be a nice energy menagment for a fast-cast nuker who will make a nice dps in no time without energy problems while the dervish tanks with earth prayers enchants , cripling them to stop agro break and having no problems with degen thanks to mystic regenaration , did you consider a new build before flaming these update , stop bitching and try to make a new build with the changed skills.Maybe my idea using these new skills is bad , but at least it's a new idea and not whining.

Sleeper Service · Jun 13, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I thought you just said that "this is a game, comparing it to over the top 'RL' examples fails"?

typical response, you know people actually DID those things? they are not over the top examples, they HAPPENED.

moriz · Jun 13, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulletdodger

This update is perfect , have you even considered why does ANET make this updates instead of nerfing UB?
Did you consider that "retarded" energy drain would be a nice energy menagment for a fast-cast nuker who will make a nice dps in no time without energy problems while the dervish tanks with earth prayers enchants , cripling them to stop agro break and having no problems with degen thanks to mystic regenaration , did you consider a new build before flaming these update , stop bitching and try to make a new build with the changed skills.Maybe my idea using these new skills is bad , but at least it's a new idea and not whining.

yea we did, and we dismissed those concepts as retarded.

Shiro Katagari · Jun 13, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

All other debates aside...

Since [Energy Drain] is the only Elite my Mesmer has used in over a year now (stop laughing! I'm serious!), this buff is wonderful

Go go High-Speed Burn!

No, really, that's it. That's my Elite of choice. Don't look at me like that....

zelgadissan · Jun 13, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

^^
Haha, I'm a Mesmer. I know [Energy Drain] was decent (maybe not worth your Elite slot though) and is now even better. I won't laugh.

That said, I'm gonna post my first QQ post in a while; this crap is just making PvE easier than it already is. Challenge? Challenge? Bueller?

ogre_jd · Jun 13, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The problem with that comparison is that GW doesn't have a "ladder match" equivalent to PvE.

Yes, it does. It's called "PvP".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Stop. PvP is not PvE. I want the challenge back in PvE.

Even if you went back to Prophecies-only in the state it was in for its first month or so, after a short adjustment period (because there's been a lot of change since then), I bet you'll find it's not much harder for you as it is in its current state. The only way to get non-self-imposed challenge back into PvE for you, and certain others in this thread, would be to make it completely inaccessable for new players.

Bryant Again · Jun 13, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

typical response, you know people actually DID those things? they are not over the top examples, they HAPPENED.

Then likewise I'll state the same:

When you hear of boxing matches and people demanding "challenges", what're they asking for? They're asking to go against the "best of the best." They don't want to compromise. They want to show how good they really are. They don't want to have to "face a whimp", they want to face someone that will truly be a testament to their skills. This applies to other forms of sports.

Climbing the mountain, crossing the Atlantic, and crossing the North Pole aren't to show feats and accomplishments of 'getting there'. It's more of a test, to see how well their survival and endurance skills have developed. Ultimately, it's still a rough comparison.

In Guild Wars, there used to be no need to limit your skills. I used to happily be able to go through areas using the best of my abilities and earn satisfaction from knowing that I did my best. These days whenever me and my friends are having trouble with a certain area, it's not entirely because we're "unskilled". It's because we're not using Ursan, or Save Yourselves, or other cheap-ass PvE skills. The game is no longer challenging, not because we "got better" but because it was dumbed down.

If it was so fun and simple as "game too easy? make it harder for yourself", then we would have seen difficulty settings die out decades ago. They are still to this day a highly demanded feature in games.

Ogre: Read later post.

Golgotha · Jun 13, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

False.
Nerfs have a trivial affect on PvE because PvE is exploitable.
Nerfs can have a big affect on PvP because that's what balancing is for.

If you followed the conversation you'll see we were talking about PvE exclusively.

Magikarp · Jun 13, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

i find Ragnarok harder than Guild Wars anymore..

off note.. Golgotha, im from Pittsburgh too :P

TheRaven · Jun 13, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Actually this was the line that stood out for me.

Quote:

* Rift Wardens in the Underworld now only teleport the player speaking to them if the Underworld Chest has appeared.

Few people have commented on it in this thread and those that did didn't understand why it changed. One person asked why they changed it and another obviously didn't read it at all and said it was to prevent finishing the quests faster.

This is a GREAT change!!!! There was a real problem with drop stealers in the UW. Griefers would wait until folks have opened the chest then they would teleport the whole party again and again and again and again..... until the drops became unassigned. Then they would use speed buffs on their bars to steal the drops.

Targren · Jun 13, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Whatever it gives rangers an unfair advantage of removing conditions without monk class. Where's the warriors? paragons? dervishers? assassins FREE condition remover in their class?? huh where?

You can have free condition removal when rangers get stance removal.

I suggest:

Imbalancing Shot (Unlinked)
15e 1/4c 10s
If this attack hits, target's stance ends. This attack can not be blocked.

Such a perfect name, too. ^_^

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 13, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

You can have free condition removal when rangers get stance removal.

I suggest:

Imbalancing Shot (Unlinked)
15e 1/4c 10s
If this attack hits, target's stance ends. This attack can not be blocked.

Such a perfect name, too. ^_^

Since when has stance removal actually been viable?

Imbalancing shot (Unlinked)
15e 1/4 10s
If this attack hits, target's stance ends. This attack can not be blocked. Your arrow arches as high as Broadhead arrow;
would be comparable to the stance removal in this game, which might I add is pretty much none existent and or has stiff penalties of use.